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Faith as recognition (and acceptance) of chain-of-command

From A. A. Hodge's Outlines of Theology

Pg. 431:

8. What are the conditions of admission into Christ's kingdom?

Simply practical recognition of the authority of the sovereign.

(For biblical illustrations of faith as recognition and acceptance of hierarchical chain-of-command - with God as Commander-in-Chief - see the Poor Woman of Canaan [Matthew 15:22-28], and see the Centurion [Matthew 8:5-13].)

Vanity, worldly pride, and self-will refuse to recognize anything higher than them.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh dear God help us! Caroline Trace is back with her utter foolishness.

August 17, 2005 at 2:56 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Sorry, Vanity/Wordly Pride/Self-Will, the Kingdom of God is not a socialist utopia (i.e. hell). It's a Kingdom. With a real King with real power and real glory... I realize that being Vanity/Worldy Pride/Self-Will you have a difficult time recognizing anything as possibly being higher than YOU, but...soon you won't have a choice. When King Jesus returns and establishes His Kingdom you will experience directly that there indeed is something higher than you...

August 17, 2005 at 5:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WHAT in the world does that have to do with the previous comment, "Caroline"? You proved that posters point exactly. You are irrational and NOT A SOUND WITNESS FOR CHRIST.

August 17, 2005 at 6:09 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

The commentor wasn't making any point, was he? I could take the opportunity to respond how I saw fit. Comprende?

And calling that particular post about faith and chain-of-command and the Hodge quote 'foolishness' is rather bizarre, no?

Yes, it is.

Par for the course for you harpies that follow me around...

August 17, 2005 at 6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are WE really following you "Caroline". By the way, we still laugh at you over at the BHT. You make easy and very nice fodder. We pray for you though that you get the psychological rest that you so deseperately need. You sad, sad, delirious soul. Maybe you Alzheimers is getting the best of you.

August 17, 2005 at 6:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh no......it's the CAROLINE TRACE show again. Watch out America, WACKY is back! Hey Caroline, do you still cuss everyone out? I know that people all over the internet still laugh about how unsound you are.

August 17, 2005 at 6:47 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Are there recordings of you praying for me?

August 17, 2005 at 9:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh poor "caroline trace" (c.t.)! You sad, sad, pathetic soul. May God have mercy on your wicked heart. May the grace and love of God break that heart of stone that you have. May God open your eyes so that you can finally see the love of God in Christ Jesus so that you, in turn, can be free to love others. Though you speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, you have become a sounding brass and a clanging cymbal. Caroline, love suffers long AND is KIND; love does not envy; love does not PARADE ITSELF, is not PUFFED UP; does not BEHAVE RUDELY (i.e. cuss others out); does not seek its own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; hears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. May the Spirit of the living God heal your heart and mind.

August 18, 2005 at 6:13 AM  
Anonymous Cosmo said...

I see that the choir from the BHT has come back chanting, 'Kill the pig, cut her throat, spill her blood'.

We should pray that God prevent their further degradation into savagery and sexual immorality.

How many more have announced proudly their fall into self-defilement?

Leave the tavern and repent. Jack has led you into despair. Will ya'll be unsatisfied until you completely burn the island. Reject your nihlism and find life.

August 20, 2005 at 7:25 AM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...

CT: Anonymous is not from the BHT.
- iMonk

August 20, 2005 at 4:03 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Noted. I'll bow to your extra-sensory abilities. But even if the commenter was from the BHT I don't mind attacks or criticisms. I like them. But, really, regarding anonymous comments, I just assume they are nobody and anybody and just take the comments at face value while mentally deleting any references to real people or places or things or accusations or whatever.

The more important thing is to assault heaven. Learn to number your days... Elucidating the practices that separate the elect from the derelict...

Derelict: failing in what duty requires; "derelict (or delinquent) in his duty"; "neglectful of his duties";

August 20, 2005 at 4:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael: Last time I checked, you weren't running our lives. Sorry to have disappointed you so (see BHT comments from yesterday) but I think I am adult enough to make my own decisions. You may be our bartender but it was never decided that you could tell us which blogs to visit and to comment at. Even you said that CT was mentally unstable.

August 21, 2005 at 1:59 PM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...


Far be it from me to ask you for favors, but if you would disable anonymous comments, I would appreciate it. On the outside chance this is a BHT fellow, I'd appreciate the opportunity to deal with the issue.

Anonymous: You can do whatever you want, but you have posts on here saying "we" this and that, and that's not fair to us. We already have to deal with this "BHT groupspeak" nonsense all the time.

If you are BHT, be a man and say so.

August 21, 2005 at 2:11 PM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...

Anonymous: In case you have forgotten, Judd asked us to not dialog with or create attention for CT. We've honored that request ever since.

August 21, 2005 at 2:22 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Nobody takes anonymous comments seriously when they contain content that embarasses or accuses or whatever, intended or not. Blog comments exist at a lower substratum. They're all useful in a way, but not to be taken seriously without discernment.

August 21, 2005 at 3:30 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

For the record I don't assume an anonymous commentor who says he's from the Boar's Head Tavern really is from the Boar's Head Tavern. I really don't. If somebody from your forum posted using his blogger name (used for his known blogger blog) then that is the only reason I'd think that person is from your forum.

August 21, 2005 at 3:36 PM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...

Well...I'm now more inclined to think it is a BHT fellow, and that doesn't make me happy. Following your description of the spouse of a BHT fellow as a ___________ _________, we agreed that dialog wasn't really appropriate. So I appreciate the fact that you're being reasonable about this, because the usual deal on the web is if a BHT member says one thing, the assumption is we all planned it together at our pomo worship services the night before.

I'm gone.

P.S. "Gnostic" is sooooo dead on :-)

August 21, 2005 at 6:42 PM  
Anonymous Cosmo said...

Well, well, well.

What can we say about Jack the Monk?

Oh so cavalier. Pity the poor lady, says he, the unhealthy, unstable. In good Baptist fashion we pity from afar yet not inviting the twisted to the party.

The inconsistencies of Pomo's is their greatest attribute.

Jesus healed the unhealthy, unstable, the twisted by engagement.

Jack the Monk says do not engage.

Chastise the fellows for engagement.

Engage the fellows not the sick, says he.

We have a reputation and writing career to think about.

And so it goes...

August 21, 2005 at 8:30 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Yes, I was insulting everyone on that BHT forum. Trying to wake them up. I failed. Unless some seeds were planted that will break forth into the sun and air in their time. Maybe if a certain farmer isn't constantly standing over them blocking the sun, smothering.

August 21, 2005 at 10:22 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Or maybe the farmer will be one of those seeds appearing to the light of the sun...

(I think the iMonk is trying to switch wives on me, by the way. I recall insulting Judson's wife [or someone with a name that sounds like Judson]. Now I gather I'm being accused of having insulted the wife of the "mixed race" couple...which would be a hate crime and hence get me a bigger penalty. [White men who marry non-white women become holy in politically-correct environments...] No, I recall insulting a white woman. At least I assume(d) she was in the possession of white DNA, or the DNA was in possession of her, whichever it is...)

But go ahead and call me a racist and nazi and whatever else. Gnostic, I guess. (Gnostic is defined by modern day seminary-bred-or-taught Christians as anybody who discusses or does the faith at the practical level.)

August 21, 2005 at 10:30 PM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...

You might consider that your "wake-up" tactics have made you into a person that is anathema to every dialogue you've ever been a part of, and I don't say that as an insult to you. You're quite intelligent, and you have demonstrated the ability to participate in conversations. But you generally 1) take things down a rather predictable path (outlined in your posts here) and 2) turn toward a rather acid vocabulary when frustrated.

If it's not broke, don't fix it, but as my dad always said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. But you're an adult and you know what you're doing, I suppose. I just find it amazing that if PJohnson mistook you for a member of the Phelps Clan you didn't at least pause and consider that terms like "devil's _________," etc were stopping any chance you had of establishing credibility on the web.

August 22, 2005 at 1:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now look who's baiting her. This is almost hilarious. Two mentally unstable and mentally depressed people dialoging. Gotta love it. Michael Spencer crying about how depressed he is and trying to lead somebody's kids as well as a congregation of "old women" to a deeper love for Christ. You show very little evidence of the hope of Christ in you, period. That is why you are just as disliked across the web BIG guy as c.t. is. Think about it. Two peas in a pod!

August 22, 2005 at 4:20 PM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...

I'm not taunting C.T.

Why don't you write me a letter at michael@internetmonk.com and let's get this over with.

August 22, 2005 at 4:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get what over with? You prefer to bash people in public so now you reap a little of what you have sown. Why waste my time writing you a letter. And, a serious question here. How in the world does someone (like yourself) who pretends to be oh so important and SO busy have so much time to sit in front of a computer? Truth is Michael...... you are looked upon throughout the blogosphere about as highly as c.t. Definitely confused and unstable(theologically and mentally).

August 22, 2005 at 4:59 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Why do you think I care how I'm "looked upon" by people? With a little honesty you can see I write very deliberately. If I wanted to be "liked" I obviously wouldn't write the way I do or write the things I do.

The practical level of the faith is an ongoing challenge to the mainstream and always will be. It's very existence convicts the mainstream.

I've very familiar with the common reactions one will get when writing about and elucidating the practical level of the faith. I have a history of doing it in venues other than the Christian blogosphere.

August 22, 2005 at 5:21 PM  
Blogger Michael Spencer said...


It's obvious to me that you desire dialog. It's also obvious to anyone who has followed your adventures at various blogs (do I have to list them?) that after some initial recognition of you as some kind of "reformed" sympathizer, things then go awry.

You will have to admit that no one on my blog ever used terms like "jixm" or "cxnt" with you, yet you brought those terms to the discussion in frustration. I understand frustration, but I am simply pointing out that if you could participate in discussions without a) invective that results in you being banned or b) the constant lecture of everyone as if you have a special revelation of some kind (7x through the Bible, etc) then you might achieve some other goals:

1) Actual conversation
2) Acceptance as a conversation partner and not a threat to conversation
3) Some of the blog community you so obviously desire.

I'm simply speaking to you as a fellow blogger. I'm not your judge.

anonymous: If you are over 18, and if you cared to speak your peace intelliegently, you'd write me.

August 22, 2005 at 5:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael: Why would I waste time writing you? It would be like writing a letter or email to c.t. You both fit the same category of unstable people. She is just more spiritual than you are. Perhaps if you did less time sitting behind that new computer you would have more time to exercise and get rid of that obese shape that you bare (really sad for a minister of all people to present himself as a glutton). It might do wonders for your depression also since prayer doesn't seem to do anything for you. You know, the part about casting all your cares on Him because He cares for you...yea that part. It doesn't say cast all your cares on everyone else because you enjoy and love the attention of men. Perhaps if you had any hope in Christ you would understand what is being said instead of constantly mocking it. Your pathetic.

August 23, 2005 at 6:13 AM  
Blogger c.t. said...

iMonk, anonymous comments can have great value. The last one above is particularly good. (The last two words should have been edited out. They're something I would have written. I've spent time in environments where anything goes, and I saw that often the very last line or paragraph of a post I would write is usually the most deletable. But other than that...)

You don't have to agree with every criticism of yourself, and receiving assessments from other people is often not even the best way to see in yourself what you need to see and currently can't see. The best way is to use the world as a mirror, and to see in yourself what you dislike in others. That is a pure way of seeing in yourself what you currently can't see in yourself.

And you never want to beat yourself up, just awaken to yourself. To everything. Understanding and awakening...

August 23, 2005 at 5:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Michael knows that it is true. He just has to deal with his pride. His pride is obviously an obstacle to obedience and he cares more about what his little tavern of dildos think of him versus what true Christians think. His real problem with what he calls the "truly Reformed" is that they know much more than he does. I mean face it. Living in the hills of Kentuckly doesn't get you too far in life. He loves the attention that he gets from his make believe tavern. Perhaps the most important part written above is ...... your pathetic. A minister of the Gospel should above all things exemplify more hope in Christ. Michael glorifies the world more than Christ. That sounds pretty pathetic to me.

August 23, 2005 at 6:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look what the all loving iMonk wrote about Pat Robertson. A man he has never met and does not really know. Here is what that godly man imonk let his loose lips say:

Robertson is a TV preacher, con man and snake oil salesman who is losing his mind.

Posted by Michael Spencer at 09:33 PM

August 23, 2005 at 7:26 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

"and he cares more about what his little tavern of dildos think of him versus what true Christians think."

A Christian should only care what God thinks of him. That is the highest standard (and truest standard) anyway.

This is what fear God means. When you fear God you don't fear man. Man will generally deliver the demands of the world to you. Fear God and get free of the demands of the world.

If you compromise the command to fear God by saying "fear real Christians" you are making a concession to the world. Fearing God includes using His Word as your authority. You have a real standard in the Word of God.

Don't fear man. Fear God, it is the beginning of wisdom.

(For instance, I can go into a crowd of real Christians who understand apostolic biblical doctrine and then suddenly I hear them mocking me for reading the King James Version, and rebuking me for stating the Alexandrian manuscripts defile the Word of God. They are demanding I accept the opinion of the world. Sorry, I only fear God...)

August 23, 2005 at 7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're. Not Your.

August 24, 2005 at 6:23 AM  

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