How to freak out a...
How to freak out the seminary/mainstream level of Christians:
Depart from the philosophical and the theoretical realms of the faith and talk about the practical level of the faith. They get convicted and challenged, and their usual response is to denounce you as a [insert current popular anathema label] then run off to a quick back-slapping festival with 'their own kind'. (CenturiOn, Pendantic Protestant, and Steve Hays, maybe you can slather some sunscreen on each other while you're at it...)
ps- All three of the Christian bloggers mentioned above would be in that category of people I've vowed not to attack, they being 98.7, at least, percent on-the-mark. Hays is a theonomist of sorts, but perhaps not a fire-breathing fool of one. PP thinks meth-amphetamine should be legalized, though I suspect he could probably be convinced otherwise with a little dose of real-world slap-up-side-the-headism. CenturiOn is one of those scary milk-bread mainstream Reformed types who you have to walk on egg shells around or he freaks out thinking Jane Fonda just tapped at his window (actually that would be scary at this point). But all three can carry on a vigorous and on-the-mark defense of the faith in the face of the usual suspects...that I've seen...
15 Comments:
I would be awfully careful with the comments about these men. Granted, I haven't read all of what they say, but I get the sense (from a few of your posts) that you yourself have "hit the mark" 100%. I don't mean to sound rude, and I'm sure there is much of you and your message to be appreciated. However, I think you have it wrong that most seminary men only know how to talk the talk and not walk it. I'm especially not sure what you mean by "seminary/mainstream". There are some seminaries I question, but you think being a seminary student is... mainstream? Again, I don't mean to sound completely negative about your posts, I guess I just want to know more of why you are saying these things and what you mean. I suppose I'm digging for elaboration on your part. Lets not forget that, despite all the recent attacks that people bring against what they call the "academia" level (Christian schools and seminaries being the target implied), most seminary students pursue this kind of education because they long to know God's Word on a deeper level and thus know God on a much deeper level. They have dedicated their lives to that end, and to the end of telling others what they have learned through preaching. Obviously, education in God's Word apart from application is vain, but I won't stick that kind of irresponsibility on either seminaries or the seminary students. Please elaborate on why you have just vehemently attacked the seminary level of education, or am I mistaken concerning your actions?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a seminary education. As long as you purchase a copy of Berkhof, or Turretin, or Calvin's Institutes (or, you know) after you graduate, and then actually go through them and master them. And as long as you've actually read the Bible complete (and for a seminary graduate I would expect nothing less than seven complete readings as a foundation to all the other kinds of Bible study one can and must do).
Then, after graduation remind yourself that your seminary, your professors, the reputation of your seminary, your own reputation, etc., is not as important as the authority of the Word of God and the biblcal command to fear God and not men.
Also, after graduation, remind yourself that 'effort' is not a bad (or gnostic, or anabaptist, or Roman Catholic, or atheist) word. Jesus tells you to do things that require effort on your part. Sanctification is not a matter of sitting stagnant on a couch as the Spirit of God works on and in you.
No, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a seminary education, or any other kind of formal education, as long as you get a real education along the way and you temper it all by fearing God and not man.
: D Thanks for clarifying. Of course, you can't stick the label seven on there and say that seminary students MUST have read the Bible that many times. lol... I'm very sorry to ask for more clarification, I don't mean to annoy you on your own blog. But, what were you referring to when you mentioned gnostics, anabaptists, RCs, and atheists? Also, I don't find Calvin's work or any other works of men a necessary requisite to knowing God more. Granted, these men studied their whole lives long and had much to say, but there are men like that today. However, I'm glad to see that you are committed to seeing people know God, and showing that fearing Him reverently is what is necessary... not appeasing the longings of men.
Adam,
You will soon see that Caroline Trace (c.t.) is a little off her rocker. She has been banned from websites all over the internet for her foolish slander, not because of her theological stance. She cusses worse than a sailor and has said some foul, foul, things on Phil Johnson's website. You will soon see that she is not worth it and you cannot reason with her. She believes that she is sinless and is always right.
Slathering sunscreen on each other sounds rather homoerotic, c.t.
That does sound rather gay.. what do you think of homosexuals CT?
The point is: reading the Word of God complete does things to you that you can't predict or know about prior to just actually doing it. Secondary works plus piece-meal Bible reading doesn't give you what the Bible potentially can give you. The Bible is a Living Language and needs to be literally downloaded complete into you (computer metaphors sometimes just get things across).
I use the number 7 more or less as symbolic of a complete effort to read the Bible complete a number of times, yet it's also a good, doable, complete number to aim for.
My references to Berkhof and Calvin et al really had to do with the fact that theology is not brain surgery. It is fairly easy to identify the most on-the-mark 'school' and teachers and then apply yourself and learn from the main sources. Something along the lines of this.
The line about gnostic/Roman Catholic/atheist etc. has to do with the issue of mistaking works righteousness with effort in sanctification. Most mainstream Christians think in terms of 'pre-regeneration' regarding effort. They just see or hear the word 'effort' and they think you're talking about synergism or what not. Once regenerate you better make efforts...
You may not have encountered these issues yet...
Mostly I'd be careful about what you say about Steve and PP because you don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with Jim. You can say what you want about me -- I have cosmic rays coming out of my body and they defect all criticism (which is the silver-age idiom for you might remember from your childhood as "I'm rubber, you're glue ...").
Or something like that.
I wouldn't want to be a Mormon or Roman Catholic or Unitarian (etc.) taking on either of the three of you, yet...
Being at the practical level of the faith as I've been I can hold that ground rather easily with any of you. (Calvinism too, because I more than just accept it - which is alot - I understand it. I have a language to understand it. You have to walk the King's Highway some - not to mention find the King's Highway, which can be one long mugging - and fear only God to get such understanding.
All YOU can do is d-e-l-e-t-e. (Or call me a 'gnostic' or 'pietist' or 'subjectivist' or...)
I am hamstrung by not being able to speak 'out of school' though. That's a problem. Higher orders (or schools) don't translate to general assemblies, for more than just one or two reasons...
But there are areas where I can challenge your self-satisfied, Ez-boy, drink-in-hand state of theological being and do it legitimately (i.e. biblically)...
C.T., with all do respect, you do come across as a gnostic, in your own words. Is there a higher knowledge that we common folk don't know about out there necessary for salvation, or is Romans 10:9 enough? It says, "...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved". There are many people who lack in complete understanding of Scripture and of God (I'm one of them!), but if they have received Christ as Lord and seek to please and follow Him, and if they believe what Romans says that must... then they are saved! Granted, works will prove true regeneration after the fact, but there is no work or special knowledge that aids in the salvation given by the Father (aside from the knowledge given in Romans 10:9 and other passages). If you are at the "practical level of faith", your actions and words hardly prove it. C.T., which comes first? Knowledge of God through His Word or application? Paul in all of his writings answers that, for he always saved application for last (see Romans). How else could it be done? Do you try and build a bridge before you've learned how? Is that more "practical" to you, C.T.? Please forgive me if I sound harsh, but your impetuosity and misguided zeal shine through and deserve an honest reply. C.T., if you are living the life you claim you are, then that is great! However, you counter your own character claim when you judge the hearts of other men who, ultimately, you don't even know. Perhaps it is true that they blog often, but at least the Word of God is there topic of choice (Deut. 11:18-23). You, however, only seem to blog about how others (the 98.7 percenters... or whoever) don't live up to your own standards. I haven't mastered Calvin's institutes, and I may never! The Word of God is enough, and there are great teachers today that I can learn from as well (although I do believe Calvin was a great man who I can learn from).
C.T., I'm sorry to say all this, but you easily earned it. Let the Word of God dwell on your heart, and please, for the respect of all of us other bloggers, don't push your standards (the ones that are apparently necessary for salvation) on everyone else. If you are a Christian, C.T., then you, along with the rest of us, should be using our time to praise God for choosing us to salvation, sanctification, and glorification in His Son, Christ Jesus the Lord (2 Thess. 2:13)! What is learned at seminaries (what you call "out of school" thought) can generally be learned even at home, if someone is willing to invest that amount of time. Let me encourage you as a brother, C.T. If you struggle with this kind of immature understanding (though you still brag of a higher knowledge), perhaps you yourself need to get up out of your Ez-boy and do a little studying. I'm not saying I'm better or more knowledgeable than you; I'm only exhorting you: don't blame the seminaries for your lack of understanding. God bless, C.T., and may He guide us all into the truth of His Word, teaching us to obey it in our daily lives!
A lot of typos above... but it's 1:08 am folks. Gimme a break! : D
Adam... great words but you will find that c.t. knows it all and spends time at various blogs across the internet literally cussing people out. She cussed Phil Johnson out at his Pyromaniac site and was banned as well as being banned at every Reformed blog on the internet. She will start a blog and then shut it down when people confront her. Many, many reliable and patient people have tried to reason with her. At first she comes across as sounding legit but after a few days of reading her, you will see that she is not psychologically or theologically sound. She believes that she is no matter what the Word of God says. Also, she has been accused of being a hyper-Calvinist. Check out what Phil Johnson said about her today in his blog after removing her harassing comments to him at Pyromaniac.
c.t. ... a note to you. Please get some help and quit thinking that you are the only one serving Christ.
In the history of the church era, in theology, 'gnostic' has an historical definition. If you extend the definition to mean anything to do with the practical level of the faith then you're not being serious.
The fact is Jesus Himself speaks of the practical level over and over and over. Also, Jesus Himself sets up divisions of the 'crowd' vs. His inner circle. Be consistent and call Jesus a gnostic.
You'll say: but you aren't an apostle!
Here is where you show your ignorance and low valuation for the radicalness of the promises of Jesus and of the message of the New Testament in general. The Holy Spirit Himself enters you when you are regenerated.
If you've ever read me to any basic degree you'll know I focus on the Word of God and the necessity for reading the Word of God. Regeneration is the main thing in the sense that it's the foundation for everything else, and it is effected, when it is, by the Word and the Spirit.
Complete readings of the Word of God puts you at least on the territory, or in the environment, where regeneration can take place, if and when it does for an individual.
Once regenerate, once you have the Spirit in you (and this very fact makes most mainstream, lukewarm Christians mock, just the mention of the Holy Spirit or the Spirit being in you...not to mention just the mentioning of the act of reading the Word of God; this all convicts the seminary/mainstream level of Christians who have made the Faith a Cub Scout outing or 'family time' and get angry when reminded that the Faith is about assaulting heaven (self and heaven).
Read the parable of the talents and see how mainstream, lukewarm, dumb Christians would rebuke Jesus Himself for suggesting that one person might know more or do more than another Christian. Rebuke the apostle Paul for telling you there is hierarchy of level of being in heaven. You'll have to rethink this whole Christian thing if you are to be consistent.
Try to see that there is a difference in your state 'pre'- regeneration and 'post'-regeneration. John Calvin himself tried to wake you up to this fact. Read his commentary on Hebrews 6:1.
From the point-of-view of a regenerate Christian who knows the practical level because they have been led into it by the Holy Spirit Himself the mainstream level is the equivalent of Moscow circa 1938. It's religion is about the same as well... You're being taught by commisars who are coming up through the approved party schools.
Identify the truth, find the on-the-mark teachers, and learn the doctrine if you're able. You throw the word 'gnostic' around, but look how you turn simple, basic, on-the-mark apostolic biblical doctrine into rabbinic vanity. On-the-mark biblical theology is not brain surgery. It's fairly easy to grasp the contents of a good, on-the-mark systematic theology. Move on then to the practical level once you have the foundation. It's there, it exists, the entrance is the Word of God itself and the guide is the Holy Spirit Himself...
I'm praying for you, C.T. If God chooses to burst through your psycho-analytical babbling, He can certainly do so. Only He can set you on the straight path!
Adam, retreat isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can be a wise move at times. Just don't allow your wounded vanity to keep you from learning new things as you regroup...
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