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10.21.2005

Calvin and classical influences


This is an excerpt from an introduction to a volume of passages from Calvin's Bible commentaries. It just shows how much classical influences played a part in Reformation understanding and how they are a part of the necessary education of a person who eventually gets a real understanding of the Bible and biblical doctrine.

Calvin’s refusal to be diverted from his main purpose is clear also in his use of classical and early Christian literature. The list of classical references is a long one. Cicero appears most often (sixteen times in the Pentateuch Harmony alone); but there are quotations from all the better-known Latin authors (Horace, Juvenal, Seneca, Terence, Cato, Quintilian, Virgil, Plautus, Suetonius, Tacitus, Livy, Pliny), and from the Greek authors (Homer, Euripides, Xenophon, Ovid, Aristophanes, Epicurus, Plutarch, and Aesop). He quotes Plato and Aristotle with respect. He admires Plato’s wisdom and piety, but objects to the “angelology” of Platonism (2 Peter 1:4, Col. 2:18, etc.). He quotes Aristotle on the distinction between anger and hatred (from “The Second Book on Rhetoric”), and refers with approval to his saying that the tongue should be an image of the understanding (Gal. 5:19, 1 Cor. 14:11). In the field of law, he speaks of Portius’ law, Flavian law, the laws of Sempronius, and Valerius’ law (Acts 16:35, 22:25, 1 Tim. 1:10). Herodotus, Pliny, Gellius, Homer all contributed a discussion of the giant Og in Deut. 3:4. It is not always possible to tell whether Calvin is depending on his own memory of a quoted passage, or on a collection of quotations such as the Adagies of Erasmus. Calvin was admired by his friends and feared by his enemies as a most learned man. But he never makes a display of his erudition and it seldom interferes with a forthright presentation of the meaning he saw in it and with his communication with his hearers and readers.

4 Comments:

Blogger c.t. said...

I can't convert anyone. Only God can regenerate and convert souls.

As for convicting a person regarding on-the-mark doctrine, THAT I can do, but it usually - usually always - will happen in time. A person has to be separated by some time from the moments that they were presented with on-the-mark doctrine.

Usually people will kick and spit and cuss at the time. If it sinks in it will manifest down the road in time.

Take for instance what I wrote about prayer: how at its most basic level it is an act that assaults one's vanity and worldly pride because you are recognizing something higher than those two mistresses of your inner being -- you are recognizing God (this is why real prayer, when you truly are talking to God, makes you feel silly or stupid; that is your vanity and pride fighting it).

And when you substitute humans- dead or alive - for God to direct your prayer to you defeat that very thing (i.e. you defeat the getting above your vanity and pride because no human being dead or alive is a threat to vanity and pride). So when you pray to, for instance, saints this is not an assault at ALL to your vanity and pride. This in fact leaves your vanity and pride very much unmolested. It is what your vanity and pride WANT you to do. To substitute human beings for God. Because when you recognize God you are getting out from under the control of your vanity and worldly pride. It is the death of vanity and worldly pride. Of the 'old man'.

The mainstream of Christianity has a weak understanding of just what the carnal or flesh or 'old man' nature is as opposed to the 'new man' and spiritual nature. They think (and I speak of Protestants here too) it solely means 'flesh' as in skin and blood and bones. No, it means vanity, worldly pride, and self-will.

So somebody like myself has to listen to endless inanity coming from genius seminary lads about 'gnosticism' and so on because they hear me telling them they have to get above their carnal nature or do battle with their carnal nature. They are beyond comically ignorant on this subject because they state their comical ignorance with such, as they see it, 'authority' and assurance that they are stating wisdom and understanding on the matter.

But this is how the devil keeps people in the darkness in both the Roman Catholic and the mainstream Protestant domains. When you are ignorant that you reside under the control of your vanity, worldly pride, and self-will you don't even know or recognize your prison cell and your guards. You're asleep to it all.

Getting back to prayers to Saints or Mary and other humans, dead or alive... When you as a Roman Catholic do this, Jeff, you don't accomplish what prayer at its most basic, foundational level exists to accomplish. You don't get above your vanity and pride. Only recognizing that which is higher than 'you' (your vanity and worldly pride and self-will) gets you truly above your vanity and pride, and it is only God that is real and that is above you. That which created you is higher than you.

+ + +

Yes, you are getting me to write out things based on what you are presenting, and thank you for that.

As for the person with limited mental capabilities vis-a-vis the Bible I think God is sovereign in creation, providence, and grace, and He is in control and makes certain that His own get what they need. Hearing the Word of God is enough. Even just a little bit. Then, I don't say that a person needs to know on-the-mark doctrine to be regenerated. They just need the Word and the Spirit. Once regenerate a person is in the Kingdom of God. Their state regarding their understanding of doctrine is not something that will keep them in or out of the Kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit enters and work in all of God's elect. It all works out in God's Plan...

October 21, 2005 at 7:23 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

In the last paragraph above I assume regeneration will lead to a modicum of saving faith, eventually. Which requires some understanding of what one is to have faith in, etc. Repentance as well, but the subject is a person with limited mental capabilities and I just think the Holy Spirit does His thing and is capable in a person like that. And faith is faith. The strength of it comes from Jesus' end as he prays for you above.

October 21, 2005 at 7:30 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

Thank you for all that. I'm a harsh friend though. I've been known to call people I've corresponded with for years "devil, devil, devil!" once they even slightly slip into devil mode.

The most important and serious thing is the stark fact that their are two kindgoms: the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of Satan. If you're not in the one you're in the other, and there are no exceptions, no inbetween, no opting-out.

Prayer in the New Testament...

The usual is to the Father. The main teaching prayer is to the Father (Our Father who art in heaven...) There are prayers though directed to Jesus. None to the Holy Spirit. Personally, I find it right to pray to God through Jesus, knowing that it is made possible with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus and the Father (I and my Father are one), in the mystery of the Trinity, are so close that a prayer directed to the Father goes through the Son anyway. (A prayer to the Holy Spirit would have to be made with conscious acknowledgement that you are engaging in a unique exercise, and it would have to correspond to a unique subject or area that the Holy Spirit, in your sense and discernment, would have a relevant participation in. I think such things as coming into new influences and new understanding, areas associated with that could involve a prayer directed to the Holy Spirit.

But prayer in general is to the Father, mediated by the Son, made by the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit. (This paragraph is not meant to be confessionally accurate...)

But that you pray to God is the main thing.

It's difficult (like trying to say 'God' when you are not yet a believer; you say "G-g-g-g-g-god" - it gets stuck in your throat; that is vanity fighting you and keeping you from saying the very name of God).

I remember looking and looking and looking for a practical guide to tell me just exactly what prayer was and all the details, and I couldn't find it. I mean I couldn't find a real practical level instruction (I could find alot of devotional level material and what not but not hardcore practical level instruction and explanation).

It's because the most basic level of prayer, a simple talking to God (request, thanksgiving, praise, confession) is exactly what prayer is. You then have to see the aspect of it that involves vanity, worldly pride, and self-will being put in their place when you recognize in a real, direct way God Himself as something that is VERY practical and real. So that alone is the practical usefulness of prayer. But prayer is much bigger than that as well...

Your state of being when praying is a big aspect of prayer. Your state of worship that is.

Prayer as a means of a higher volitional ability. Literal ability to really DO things.

Prayer and fasting together, what that means.

It's a big subject, but also at its most basic level it is also BIG...

After my complete Bible reading I've been recording I'm going to record something to do with prayer and fasting. A practical level aim. And write notes along the way to give an idea what the practical level of the faith is bout. The doing of the faith...

October 21, 2005 at 10:47 PM  
Blogger c.t. said...

To be more pithy about your question or point about the person who is mentally, let's say, handicapped, and what that means regarding their salvation in terms of being able to understand the Bible and doctrine...

The Bible says to those who have been given more more is expected of them. So God wouldn't expect as much from a mentally limited person than He expects from a person who has all the advantages to engage His Word and know the truth...

October 22, 2005 at 3:14 PM  

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