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9.04.2009

Molech appears as James White lectures...


God enjoys tripping up false teachers. Here is a video made by false teacher James White where he is castigating another preacher for burning NIV bibles (the preacher White castigates believes the Authorized, King James, Version is the pure and whole, God-preserved, received Word of God). White plays a video within his video of this preacher burning NIV bibles.

As White in his liberal, academic tone womanishly pooh-poohs the man for being so ignorant that he can't recognize bible versions based on the devil's Alexandrian manuscripts as real Bibles look what emerges from the flames.

This first image is of a Molech-like false idol beginning to emerge from the burning NIV:



This next image shows the Molech-like false idol more clearly:



This third image shows a snout-nosed devil emerging from the burning NIV:



You can see the times each image was caught on the images themselves and so see them yourself.

White is still lecturing to all Christians who are so ignorant as to hold to God's received, preserved Word. As the devil makes himself known in such critical text bible products right under his nose. Look at his facial expressions, listen to his voice. This is a deeply vain man with no discernment for the most foundational thing for a believer, the very Word of God itself.

God marks false teachers, and he also trips them up.

62 Comments:

Anonymous ct said...

All you critical text scholars and the dupes that follow them, look at that second image above. Click on it, make it larger. You can see all four feet of Molech, his snout and two eyes. Critical Text scholars don't believe in anything supernatural. They think it's "flat earth" to believe in anything supernatural. They think it's not "educated." Look at that image! That is Molech emerging out of a burning Alexandrian 'bible'. That is *not* photoshopped, scholars. That is what you will experience when you go down to hell, which you don't believe in. You will then see what you don't believe in now. You will see what you worship now. You will be in hell, experiencing what you don't believe in now.

September 5, 2009 at 9:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That beast has a long nose.

October 27, 2009 at 7:54 AM  
Blogger PublicLens said...

NIV Bibles come in pork BBQ? Any other flavors? I'm going to try my ESV on the Webber tonight. Hoping for chicken!

October 27, 2009 at 11:09 AM  
Blogger SermonFire said...

See Jesus on a pancake recently?

October 27, 2009 at 11:17 AM  
Blogger Kyle in Eau Claire, WI said...

How do you know Molech is a bull?

October 27, 2009 at 2:05 PM  
Blogger PublicLens said...

Yeah, I thought Molech was a Canadian imported beer.

October 27, 2009 at 2:08 PM  
Blogger Kyle in Eau Claire, WI said...

For some reason I thought Molech was an Owl, i.e. Bohemian Groove.

October 27, 2009 at 2:31 PM  
Blogger Kyle in Eau Claire, WI said...

meant grove not groove:)

October 27, 2009 at 2:33 PM  
Blogger PublicLens said...

I think I just saw the Jonas Brothers faces on the surface of my Led Zeppelin IV CD. I will have to consign it to the flames and see what pops up.

October 27, 2009 at 2:33 PM  
Blogger Kyle in Eau Claire, WI said...

Do you even know of James White?

Your comments seem to me to indicate that you do not and are just in KJV attack mode. I am referring to

"which you don't believe in" reffering to hell.

"You will then see what you don't believe in now"

"experiencing what you don't believe in now"
"Critical Text scholars don't believe in anything supernatural"

All I am saying is at least know what you are attacking before doing it. If I am incorrect and you do know of James White and read his materials ect..then it would just seem to me that you are lying, because James White does believe in hell and the supernatural.

Just know what/who you are attacking before doing it.

October 27, 2009 at 2:48 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

I'm a Calvinist and know very well what James White states, but his main role is to put doubt in the minds of Christians on the authority of God's Word, just as the counter-Reformation Jesuits made that their central tactic in the overall strategy to dis-spirit Christians and make them more amenable to the word and authority of man.

As for what Molech looked like, you won't find out reading modern day Reformed academics. They don't want to go near the subject of false idols. Read John Owen on that subject. His Biblical Theology.

Read my latest post on this blog as well.

http://electofgod.blogspot.com/2009/10/modern-day-false-idols.html

October 27, 2009 at 4:43 PM  
Blogger PublicLens said...

Yep. You've got to go all the way back to John Owen to find out what Molech looked like, because he lived in the second millennium B.C.

Or maybe he just had YouTube.

October 27, 2009 at 4:50 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

Did I say critical text followers are shallow? Do I need to?

They're a species of atheist, so it follows...

October 27, 2009 at 5:02 PM  
Blogger PublicLens said...

You found us out. We are also zombies.

No, I just said that because zombies are really popular right now. And besides, zombies are far from shallow.

No way we could ever be as deep as someone who thinks he sees ancient Near Eastern idols in a YouTube video. That's deep, man. Really deep. Can I have some of what you're smokin'?

October 27, 2009 at 5:07 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

You're a common mocker that appears in these end times. Knock yourself out. Here's some advice though: when the King returns, don't try to hide under any mountains. That's not going to work out too well for you guys.

October 27, 2009 at 5:22 PM  
Blogger ubiquitouserendipity said...

ct said...
You're a common mocker that appears in these end times. Knock yourself out. Here's some advice though: when the King returns, don't try to hide under any mountains. That's not going to work out too well for you guys.

ubiquitouserendipity says: WOW, king james is coming back?

October 27, 2009 at 5:27 PM  
Blogger PublicLens said...

A common mocker? Sir, you insult me. I am a professional mocker. I do it for a living.

As for hiding under mountains? Nah, I'm following the lead of our former Vice President and heading for a secure undisclosed location.

October 27, 2009 at 5:28 PM  
Blogger Jordan Cooper said...

This is too funny...

October 27, 2009 at 6:14 PM  
Blogger Rick Beckman said...

Just out of curiosity, but as a King James Onlyist, you shouldn't mind the question: Where does the KJV state that demons are partially, sorta visible when certain things are burned?

Seems like you're abandoning King James Onlyism (which is itself an abandoning of the doctrine of sola Scriptura) in order to find demons where none exists.

Go lay in a field and watch the clouds if you want to find faces in things. Believe me, you'll find hundreds of "demon-like" shapes in the clouds -- it's easy to do. Clearly the sky is Satanic and we must do the Christian thing and burn it. I'll get the nuclear bombs, you get the jets; I'll meet you at the launch site.

October 27, 2009 at 6:19 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

The lack of self-awareness you show in mouthing White's strawman King James Only is astonishing. I'm not English preservationist (yes, that is the first time you've heard that term). Neither is a Gail Riplinger, for the record. You are unthinkingly eating garbage being fed to you by Critical Text priests who are engaged in an industry that both makes them money and diminishes the authority of the Word of God in the minds of Christians at the same time. Quite an accomplishment for unregenerate, practical atheist scholars.

There are actual Reformed Christians who hold to the received Hebrew and Greek text and consider them in any sound translation to be the pure and whole Word of God. You need to get out a bit or at least get out of the environment of the critical text priests who obviously have a stranglehold on your mind and heart currently.

As for demons and the KJV. False idols are called by many names in the Word of God, I'm not totally sure demons is one of them, though the connection would be obvious.

Take the image for what it's worth. I posted it because of it's remarkable detail and coloring and shading, and as a rather humorous backdrop to White's pious outrage/mocking at the burning of of these garbage versions being called Bibles. God enjoys tripping up false teachers. He likes to 'mark' those who affect to be His followers while teaching and attempting to emforce rebellion against Him.

On what I think of false idols read this post:

http://electofgod.blogspot.com/2009/10/modern-day-false-idols.html

Mock that one too all you want.

For a complete teaching on false idols pick up a book modern day Reformed academics (especially critical text proponents) don't want you to even know about: Biblical Theology by John Owen.

It's a book (actually two books in one) that rebukes modern day Reformed academics in many ways.

October 27, 2009 at 6:51 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

CT,

I will pay for all your expenses if you agree to a recorded debate with James White in person at a location of your choosing.

Just let me know - dspratlin(at)gmail.com

October 27, 2009 at 7:17 PM  
Blogger HiTechT said...

CT, you're a Wing Nut. @Daniel - don't hold your breath Daniel. CT isn't very smart (self-evident), but believe you me, he knows better than to appear on the record in public with Dr. White. How do I know? These guys are all the same - big talk, but debate with cross examination in front of an audience? Ain't happening. Every macho excuse in the book is offered, but the truth is this - when the lights come on, the cockroaches scatter.

October 27, 2009 at 7:53 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

HiTechT,

oh I know CT won't agree to any debate. I just want to see him squirm out of it.

October 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM  
Blogger William said...

Just a few points if I may

1. Where is the gospel in all of these. Seems to be another case of Christ plus something. In this case Christ + KJV = Christian and all others are "unregenerate practical atheist" I smell a hint a hypercalvinism as well most but not all KJV only calvinist are.

2. If that was really a demon it would be so hideous that the person filming it would have probably dropped dead. I have to give the torment of hell a little more credit than some supposed fire goblin. People always resort to things like this when their arguments are bad and they are not gospel-centered.

3. James White often teaches against false idols such as KJV onlyism.

4. Once again I must come back to the gospel. Most who seek to add burdens and condemn those who do not match up have forgotten the gospel and have moved on to idols.

By the way how are you doing with the 2 greatest commandments? Branding one of God's servants a false teacher probably is not a good step in keeping them.

God Bless
William

October 27, 2009 at 8:13 PM  
Blogger SermonFire said...

But why would you be a KJV-only?

I'm pretty much an ESV-only because the reformed ladies I meet think it's sexy.

October 27, 2009 at 9:04 PM  
Blogger Lane Chaplin said...

CT, thank you for this informative and thought provoking article. I've had my own personal dealings with James White and have found him to be quite arrogant and simply will not deal with anything substantial. For example, I've tried before to tell him about my dealings with the Kool-Aid man who keeps coming to my door trying to sell me broken George Foreman grills on a bi-weekly basis and how I don't really trust this Kool-Aid man because he's red in color much like the devils who live in the basement on 4th street, but he simply ignores me. Unbelievable! Keep exposing these people for the sake of the brethren, and let me know if you ever want to hear stories about my days fighting in the Revolutionary War.

October 27, 2009 at 10:31 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

Yah, ond you King James onlyists most likely wear your pants really high, yah? Ha, ha. Ond you like to run when we scare you with da debate challenge, yah? You are scared? yah? because apograph and autograph and stenograph and and Steffi Graf are all confused in your mind, yah? Because you can't handle it, yah? Run little girl, run! ha ha! Yah, we see you run! We see you!!!

October 27, 2009 at 10:52 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

I'm reminded that Steve Rafalsky at the PuritanBoard has requested White interact with him, and White stays in the tall grass. White avoids all those Reformed gentlemen over there who don't hold the critical text too highly. That's going on years now. White was a member there and made a quiet exit when he read Reformed critiques of the critical text bibles. John Owen didn't have much patience for the White types of his day. In fact, in any stage of the Reformation, any generation of the reformers, White would have a ticket to Rome pinned to his collar, considered to be not serious enough to rate the time and effort of a response.

October 27, 2009 at 11:12 PM  
Blogger William said...

This is a fruitless waste of time. I would exhort all of the brethren here to just leave this be. Dr.White won this debate a long time ago. Any more discussion here would be a waste.



my 2 cents
William

October 27, 2009 at 11:40 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

William, good advice. Wrong conclusion, but good advice. Stay away from real Christians. We will only upset you. Stay away from the authority of God. It will only upset you. Flee to the word and authority of man. It is what man-fearers crave and need. Stay in your village of morality. Back slap your fellow man-fearers. Stay off the Way. It's actually dangerous out here. Take care of your families and play church with your church leaders. The devil will leave you alone. At all cost, don't upset the devil. Or the world. Or your all-important flesh needs and demands.

William, why did you come back to read this comment? Go, go back to safety. Back to the authority and word of man. Back to where your vanity, worldly pride, and rebellious self-will is comfortable. Quick, William, get back to safety...

By the way, good to know James White has 'won the argument' against the Reformation. Didn't see that headline.

October 28, 2009 at 8:18 AM  
Blogger William said...

CT,

It's amazing how you can make accusations against people you don't really know. Obviously you seem to be upset more than anyone else. You definitely don't upset me. You need to get back to the gospel and re evaluate why you call yourself a Christian. I have had extensive dealings with guys like you before. Legalism is your god and those that don't match up to your standard (KJV onlyism) are unsaved. I am exhorting you to examine yourself instead of trying to pick a juvenile fight with an elder in the faith.

By the way Dr. White won the debate against KJV ONLYISM along time ago. So has Dan Wallace and others. Just do the research before you make baseless accusations.

God Bless,

William

October 28, 2009 at 12:31 PM  
OpenID diglot said...

It's about time someone told the truth about those Alexandrian heretics.

One time, I burnt these magical beans that I bought (because they would not grow) and I saw the ghost of Steve Erkel come up out of them!

Scary stuff

October 28, 2009 at 1:44 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

Good stuff, diglot, yah. Vee are showing dem daily to not mess vit dee Vord of God like dee Message and dee NIV and dee NASB and dee one dat dat archbishop gave dee approval of, yah? Vee show dem! Keep the good vork up. Yah, vee show dem!

October 28, 2009 at 5:39 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

CT is the reason for the word "heresy." He doesn't play with a full deck and refuses to engage anyone in a mature conversation.

I'm convinced he is either (A) mentally retarded, (B) 12 years old, or (C) unable to converse. Maybe it's a mixture.

October 28, 2009 at 5:54 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>It's amazing how you can make accusations against people you don't really know.

No, right, you critical text guys are a mystery. James White defenders are a mystery wrapped in an enigma...something like that.

>Obviously you seem to be upset more than anyone else.

We are Christians that simply stand and defend the pure and whole - received - Word of God. You call that being upset (you mock that is, and you want to be condenscending and humoring and all that, it feeds your shallow, juvenile vanity).

>You definitely don't upset me.

It's all about you, man.

>You need to get back to the gospel and re evaluate why you call yourself a Christian.

Translation: "You need to give up this feckless fear of God and start fearing man like we do. What do you think, that you can defeat the world, guy? Join us, we are close to defeating God's plan. Don't get caught on the wrong side of the battle line. Don't be a loser." No, William, you can annoy God's plan, but you can't defeat God's plan. I fear God alone. I don't fear man. I like where I'm at.

>I have had extensive dealings with guys like you before. Legalism is your god and those that don't match up to your standard (KJV onlyism) are unsaved.

Calling valuation for and defense of the pure and whole received Word of God legalism is an example of the gutter rhetoric of false teachers. Your followers and comrades on the man-fearing side may be ignorant enough to not know what legalism is, but this Christian knows what legalism is. Maybe you should peruse a good old book like Dathenus' Pearl of Christian Comfort some time. No, you've never heard of that book.

>I am exhorting you to examine yourself instead of trying to pick a juvenile fight with an elder in the faith.

Now you're channeling Cardinal Sadolet. I'll channel John Calvin: "When I start taking advice from individuals who have the devil's tongue down their throat and his tail up their ass I'll give you a call." Direct Calvin quote there.

>By the way Dr. White won the debate against KJV ONLYISM along time ago. So has Dan Wallace and others. Just do the research before you make baseless accusations.

He made up a term and hacked it to pieces. His argument against anything with the letters KJV in it is an argument against the authority of God in Scripture and is a continuation of the Jesuit counter-Reformation.

>God Bless

He does, daily, through His pure and whole *received* Word.

October 28, 2009 at 6:00 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>CT is the reason for the word "heresy." He doesn't play with a full deck and refuses to engage anyone in a mature conversation. I'm convinced he is either (A) mentally retarded, (B) 12 years old, or (C) unable to converse. Maybe it's a mixture.

Did you really write that? Have you missed all the "mature" comments from your friends above?

October 28, 2009 at 6:02 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

>>>Did you really write that? Have you missed all the "mature" comments from your friends above?

Translation: But mom, Billy's parents let him do it!!!

And that's the 12 year old that I was referring to coming out.

October 28, 2009 at 6:20 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

OK, Daniel.

Personally I don't mind the mocking. I expect it. When you guys are defending the indefensible you can really do nothing but mock.

The devil fights hardest on the ground of the Word of God. Christians have been martyred in untold numbers defending the pure and whole received Word of God. Shallow scholars whether duped or consciously mischievous are playing their part. Scholars, who, in a different yet similar context, John Owen described as "a host of arrogant, wanton thinkers, puffed up with every fancy of science or yearning for the reputation of erudition..." Book 5, Chapter 12, Biblical Theology.

October 28, 2009 at 6:33 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

CT if you are so sure our position is indefensible, why have I yet to receive an answer to my offer of an all expense paid publicized debate?

October 28, 2009 at 6:42 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

We don't debate fools. It's not productive. As I said, if Jesus Himself came down to you critical text proponents and disabused you of your Romanist activity you'd say: "Holy Jesus, we follow you, but you are wrong on this one."

October 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

For one so sure he holds the truth, you sure are quick to refuse to spread it. The gospel dies with those like you. You take your candle and place it under a basket then claim victory. Sounds more like Bishop Spong...but he actually debated people and wasn't afraid of having his beliefs tested and reviewed by his peers.

In that sense, even a heretic like Spong is more Christ-like than you.

October 28, 2009 at 7:01 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>even a heretic like Spong is more Christ-like

Thanks for exposing yourself. I think.

My advice: less Spong, more pre-19th century Reformation influences based on the received text; based on a high valuation for the authority of God in the Word of God.

Try it. Though, it does tend to be dangerous. Leaving liberal enviroments for the Way puts the devil on your case. You'd better have the armor of God. Find it in the Word of God. Humble yourself to the Word of God. Look up to it. Don't look down on it as one looks down on a 'document' one is 'determining' the content of.

Give it a try.

October 28, 2009 at 9:09 PM  
Blogger William said...

CT,
a few questions?

1.What term was is that Dr. White made up and hacked to pieces and in which debate?

2.could you give me a clear definition of the gospel and what makes one a Christian?


God Bless,
William

October 28, 2009 at 9:27 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

You just refuse to interact with anything. You're intellectually and biblically dishonest.

You claim to know the truth but you won't defend it. You have a weak, if even present, backbone.

Defend your position against a real person and not your clan of strawmen. If not, admit your cowardice and return to Christ.

October 28, 2009 at 9:28 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>You just refuse to interact with anything. You're intellectually and biblically dishonest. You claim to know the truth but you won't defend it. You have a weak, if even present, backbone. Defend your position against a real person and not your clan of strawmen. If not, admit your cowardice and return to Christ.

Another seminary boy who thinks 'debating' is anything. I don't debate, I shock you with the truth, and you flinch, whine, cry, run, and perhaps in a quiet moment much later on reflect on an actual thought or two about what was said to you.

October 28, 2009 at 9:59 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

And you are on my blog. Read some of the posts. You may have and simply don't like what you hear. What you read in my posts is something new to you. A bold Christian not f-ing around. Now go tell your elder I cussed.

October 28, 2009 at 10:01 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

Your posts are riddled with so much disinformation and elementary school logic that I have to wonder about your sanity.

I'm challenging you publically but you hide in your comfortable cavern of ignorance the likes of which only the truly demented ever visit. Those who refuse to debate are those who refuse to have their ideas challenged. Even Paul, in your exalted received text, debated others.

You are the only Romanist here, sir.

October 28, 2009 at 10:19 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>CT, a few questions?

OK...

>1.What term was is that Dr. White made up and hacked to pieces and in which debate?

King James Only. If he didn't coin it, I stand corrected. I don't really care who coined it it's still a strawman. Why? Because it is the underlying manuscripts that are at issue. Something White very well knows, but he also knows that is ground he can't defend, hence the strawman. Also, myself and also an iconic figure in the debate such as Riplinger are not 'English preservationist.' It is a strawman to state we don't think all the Reformation era Bibles are the Word of God in those languages. The Dutch, French, German, etc. translated from the Masoretic Hebrew and Received Greek text.

Notice *all* modern projects to make a new version from the same texts as the AV *deviate*? (The NKJV deviates in the underlying Hebrew manuscript and also in places in the Greek).

The famine of the end time. It is a famine for the Word of God.

>2.could you give me a clear definition of the gospel and what makes one a Christian?

Regeneration by the Word and the Spirit turns one to God, pilgrim. You want 'words' (i.e. words of man) to explain it for you. Only the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit in your heart can give you understanding of the Gospel. Once regenerated you become aware of certain things such as *the Voice of the Shepherd*, i.e. the Word of God. *Not the word of man.* The Word of God. And the authority of God that goes along with that Word. You actually *value* it. (I.e. you don't do things like *mock* it, pilgrim; or look down on it as if it is something *you* determine the content of. You look up to it as being something that is *above you.*)

Once regenerated by the Word and the Spirit you are given by God the grace of faith. Then you are inspired by God to learn things such as what - or who - you are to have faith in. That is part of conversion. Actually engaging the Word of God. Along with the discernment that can only come with the Holy Spirit you learn doctrine. You learn the *plan of God.* The plan that is encompassed from one pole of eternity to another.

You learn that the spine of God's plan is the two Adams and federal headship under one or the other. (But now this gets into doctrine too particularly. Suffice it to say: classical Covenant - Federal - Theology is on-the-mark biblical doctrine. Calvinism is on-the-mark biblical doctrine, un-watered down, un-negotiated down to the demands of one's fallen nature.

The Gospel itself is only a puzzle to a seminarian who has yet to humble himself to the Word of God. A contrite and humble spirit, a broken heart, a broken pride is necessary to see the Word of God as *something that is above you.*

Regeneration inspired you to come into understanding of what you already now are and have been given. Again, the Gospel is not something you know by some definition in a book. A regenerated believer knows the Gospel the way he/she knows his or her family history. The people of God being gathered in to His Kingdom. The High Priest and Mediator Jesus Christ, King, Lord, Savior, and His work in life and on the cross lifting the curse of the law, once and for all, with one sacrifice of Himself, God-man, and opening the way for God's elect to come under the federal head of the Redeemer and no longer be under the death sentence that was the federal head of Adam.

- continued below -

October 28, 2009 at 10:31 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

- continued from above -

What you want to avoid is the importance of God's Word in all this. Regeneration is rare among self-identified Christians, I have found. Hence discernment to be able to *recognize* and *value* the received Word of God is rare.

The matter of missing verses, variants, and the silly puddy nature of modern day translation is big but nothing compared to the unbroken pride that is sustained by the very approach of fallen man in using corrupt manuscripts needing man's authority and man's help to even exist.

There is a difference between a *received* manuscript and a *constructed* manuscript. Your critical text masters won't tell you this. They'll tell you that the received manuscript needs an 'editor'. It needs to be edited. That is not the same as needing to be *constructed.*

Anyway, with regeneration it all becomes a mute point, because God's own know the voice of the Shepherd by the Holy Spirit now in their hearts.

We sounds the alarm, we stand watch for all the corrupting of the Word of God (ongoing, by degree, never-ending); and people get angry. Too bad, God's elect aren't going away. Of course we *are* going away eventually. Try to catch on prior to that.

October 28, 2009 at 10:32 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>You are the only Romanist here, sir.

It stings you when you learn of the counter-Reformation and how its main tactic was to destroy faith in the authority of the Word of God by introducing variants and various corrupted manuscripts. The goal was to make people amenable to putting their faith in the word and authority of man. The Pope. The magisterium.

That battle was won by the reformers. Often at the cost of their lives.

In the late 19th century it was all given away by dumb Christians who didn't know any better. No shot fired. Even someone like B. B. Warfield falling for the devil's line and crossing over that line. Yet God's people, God's remnant, were still around then, as we are in all eras of the history of redemption, and they sounded the alarm. And do to this day.

The Romanists, like Muslims, have the 'long view' and could afford to wait until Christians were asleep to even such foundational issues that underlie the very Word of God, the foundation of the faith.

The ongoing battle between the devil and his children and God's remnant. The devil can only play for time though. God's elect come into the truth eventually, one by one. And in the fullness of time all is consummated.

October 28, 2009 at 10:43 PM  
Blogger Daniel said...

And again you fail to interact with what is said. You have some imaginary conversation going on with another person entirely.

I challenged. You refused. This is intellectual surrender. I win, nay, Christ wins.

October 28, 2009 at 10:46 PM  
OpenID diglot said...

The Reformation is overrated. And the Received Text is even more overrated.

October 29, 2009 at 6:50 AM  
Blogger HiTechT said...

...and this is why I seldom post on blogs such as this. Folks like ct are only too happy to demonstrate how much they don't know - got nothin' and plenty of it. My parting comment is this: go back and read everything ct has posted; there isn't one substantive comment to be found anywhere. That says more about this person than anything anyone else could post here. So, how about it ct? Forget the invectives because I don't give a flip what you think about me - make ONE substantive, verifiable comment about the textual issue. Please hurry; I'm turning blue from holding my breath.

October 29, 2009 at 7:01 AM  
Blogger rick said...

ct,...

i come from indonesia and saved by holy word of God in Indonesian languange. but because limited vocabulary in Indonesian , not all text can be traslated properly inton indonesian languange either by all manuscript's version as well as your fanatic of KJVO. i ask you something, is my bible from devil or not ? or are indonesian people saved by devil or not. There are old man here, young and from different culture and tribe and your KJVO have me begin to hate all KJV scholar because have offended all people from the others country.

please reply me ..

October 29, 2009 at 8:13 AM  
Blogger C. Andiron said...

Rick's point is valid. Do you consider all the converts in China, Africa, etc. to be false converts just because they do not read the AV?
What about Christians who existed before the AV? Have you ever posted on this?

Separately, how do you know that you are not crossing the line into superstition and divination when you start thinking that shapes you see when staring into a fire are actual demons? Think of the book of Job. Wasn't one of the main points of that book that people (such as Job's friends) are too prone to stare at things (such as Job's misfortunes) and read into them things that are not warranted. The same could be said of Jesus' comments in Luke regarding the Tower of Siloam.

I'm just saying it seems that you are reading too much into things, when you could refute White without having to interpret your subjective impressions as objective reality when it suits you (do you think every cloud shape has doctrinal significance?). It makes you appear unbalanced. Seeing demons under every bush is not part of Christian doctrine, and asking you to step back and consider what you are saying is not evidence that I 'fear man'.

October 29, 2009 at 9:58 AM  
Blogger Rick Beckman said...

But it's not just *every* bush, C. Andiron... It's a burning NIV! And the demonic shapes can't possibly be divine disapproval that someone's burning the Bible... No, it *must* be divine disapproval that someone is burning the Devil's Bible!

Now, I'm off to the KJV to find verses which verify everything I just said... Oh... There are none? Hmm... So much for "sola Scriptura," but KJV-Onlyism trumps that, right? (It must -- Onlyism itstelf relies on man's arguments rather than the Scriptures alone; could someone in 1499 prove that the KJV is the only proper English Bible? Game, set, match.)

October 29, 2009 at 10:26 AM  
Blogger C. Andiron said...

Ahhh... sorry I missed your post Rick. Looks like he backed off a little in his response to you, so maybe there is some hope of some sort of ... awareness that he might be a tad imbalanced in this.

October 29, 2009 at 10:35 AM  
Blogger Master Phase said...

I leave my NIV sitting on top of my pc. Could that be the reason my pc won't work right? This is like Catholics seeing marry in a cracker just stupid.

October 29, 2009 at 11:21 AM  
Blogger Rick Beckman said...

I thought Jesus was in the cracker and Mary was in the grilled cheese, trees, water stains on walls, and so on? :P

October 29, 2009 at 1:43 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>i come from indonesia and saved by holy word of God in Indonesian languange. but because limited vocabulary in Indonesian , not all text can be traslated properly inton indonesian languange either by all manuscript's version as well as your fanatic of KJVO. i ask you something, is my bible from devil or not ? or are indonesian people saved by devil or not. There are old man here, young and from different culture and tribe and your KJVO have me begin to hate all KJV scholar because have offended all people from the others country.

First of all I don't care if you're offended. Being offended all the time is a mark of one's fallen nature.

Second: God knows what liberal scholars are doing with translations into other languages. Liberals love to do their work in the dark (in politics liberal means fascist of one degree or another because the left has co-oped the term 'liberal' dishonestly; in biblical doctrine liberal means man-centered rather than God-centered, among other things it means; it also means having little to no valuation for the innerancy or God-preserved nature of the Word of God).

If I was awakened by the Spirit (regenerated) and I only knew Malay-Indonesian (or whatever) I will, with the guidance of the Spirit in me, gravitate towards the most accurate, pure and whole Bible I could get my hands on. In whatever language I could manage.

Your situation is a bit up-stream from that currently. Just as when I first read the Bible, not knowing about manuscripts or translations, I read a New Revised Standard Version. It didn't take long though to discern things and my second reading was the AV1611.

The devil has the upper hand when we are still in an ignorant state (I'd say innocent but none of us are innocent).

I also think that God sees to it that a good, accurate Bible will be available to anyone who needs it. Or He will inspire you to bring it into your language yourself.

There are translation societies that use the received manuscripts.

Be careful forming opinions about different sides of this debate. The anti-KJV people are propagandists and shameless. You have to learn about it all on your own from all sources, not just critical text sources.

October 29, 2009 at 1:55 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>The Reformation is overrated. And the Received Text is even more overrated.

I give you credit, diglot, for your honesty. Critical Text teachers and followers would *not* have been on the side of the reformers in the 16th century. Critical text scholars want authority to be in man, not God, just as the Jesuits of the counter-Reformation did (and still do).

October 29, 2009 at 2:00 PM  
Anonymous ct said...

>Looks like he backed off a little in his response to you

My experience is critical text followers are historically ignorant and rather shallow regarding things involved with language and literature.

You all seem to have memorized James White little book and that's about it. You take its straw man then you call anything that doesn't conform to that straw man a concession.

I said I am not English preservation (a term I learned from Kent Brandenburg, don't know if he coined it, but it's a useful term). Neither is a Riplinger. When we talk of Luther's Bible and of the Dutch and French and Italian Bibles made from those languages during the Reformation (I mean see Riplinger's In Awe of thy Word, and I mention her because if *she* isn't a representative of the straw man who is?) it should be obvious that English preservation is not the issue. And when we talk about the underlying manuscripts it should be obvious that questions like: "So where was the AV in the 1400s? Huh?" are not exactly relevant.

October 29, 2009 at 2:11 PM  

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