Jonah Goldberg and the 'deer'

In his latest 'G-File', pajamaboy/schoolboy Jonah Goldberg recounts the event that caused him to suffer a head wound and several body wounds. He tells his audience that he was run over by a deer.

Here's what happened: Jonah, distracted from his smartphone, barked at a stranger like Marie Antoinette barking at a servant, and the stranger proceeded to beat his ass in the darkness of the early morning hour. Jonah's injuries are consistent with a) getting his ass knocked down, and b) getting kicked numerous times once he was on the ground.

What is Jonah's story (which he had to make up since his injuries are visible and he couldn't hide out for several days)? He says he was knocked over by a running deer.

The problem with his story (and these kind of ad hoc story lies always have simple problems like this that reveal their fakeness) is this deer apparently could discern a *closed* gate from the rest of the long metal fence the gate was a part of. Now, keep in mind, for the purposes of Jonah's story *the gate has to be closed.* Because the deer powers through the closed gate just as Jonah is walking up to it, thus it is the gate that hits Jonah and not some stranger who cavalierly kicked his pajama boy ass.

So what are the odds the deer is going to run full speed into the fence right where the closed gate is? Deer don't know closed gate from fence. What are the odds the deer is going to run full speed into the fence to begin with? And then he says that even though the deer knocked the hinges clear off the gate (his photo doesn't seem to verify that) the deer nevertheless ran off into the morning darkness unhurt. Which makes him conveniently unavailable to be interviewed by Breitbart.

So if the gate wasn't free-swinging that deer would have been hurt, but the deer didn't exist.

The only positive thing that might come out of this is a pajamaboy who gets his ass kicked might wake up and become something resembling an adult; but as I write that I'm thinking, no, no chance a #nevertrump schoolboy pundit will ever change. Nothing changes those types. They alter reality to defend themselves against such potential changes...

The election

[An email...]
Additions below...learn

If you're wondering what's going on with the election basically in this last quarter mile the media (mainstream media and cuck media) has thrown and smeared about 80 thousand tons of excrement on everything, daily, to dispirit everybody, taint everybody, provide cover for voter fraud, make people tired of the unending up is down falsehoods and lunacy (a Marxist tactic) to the point of giving up on attempting any meaningful action or change. And I forgot to mention the cosmic level gaslighting and ignoring of blatant evidence of massive treasonous corruption and other crimes.

The only solution is about a hundred thousand guillotines working overtime.

- C.

*******

I have to add that alongside the exposing of the fake conservatives this political season has accomplished (the cucks, globalist parasites, pretending to be for liberty, except when it matters, like right now), there has also been an exposing of Christian clerics and theologians who have almost 100% thrown in with the demon globalists. Chalk that up to the common shallowness and fecklessness those types have always displayed in this era of cultural Marxism; but also chalk it up to the fact that 90% or more of clerics and theologians are pure and willing and active ministers of the devil. First to bow their knee to the devil, always willing to serve the devil.

Look at that demon mortician Russell Moore. Makes abortion his main issue, but fights to get Hillary elected...the most vicious child-sacrificing witch in political power today. Russell Moore is a Molech worshipping demon. May all the default pro-Hillary, pro-Satanic globalism ministers receive their just reward in time.

*******

Simon of Australia writes:

Yeah we can see that here in Oz.... It's interesting actually, because I've been discussing it with people here, and everyone seems to fall into one of two camps. There's the people that clearly see what's going on, and then what we call "the Normies" who believe the main stream media and take it in as their only source of information, like "yeah but do you know about Trumps attitude to women?!"

The others clearly think Hilary is crooked and evil. I know a few people who have been converted by the likes of Infowars and Wikileaks so those guys are doing a job.

But over all, everybody agree's that this election is putrid, like a big stinking pile of warm steaming dogshit. Somebody said to me the other day that "America is broken", which was a good summation.

People here also seem to know that Trump is out day after day filling football stadiums with cheering crowds, while Hillary is at home sleeping, so if she some how slides into office with that big grin on her face everyone will know it was a setup.

I respond:

One theme to watch unfolding is the change from things being conservative vs. leftists to the battle lines being ruling class vs. everyone else. I wouldn't want to be in the ruling class when the dam finally breaks. (By the way, the dam is taking a long time to break because America had so much wealth post WW2. Wealthy people, even at just the happy suburban level, don't want to pick up pitchforks and fire. But the long attack on the country is now effecting people at levels that hit everyday survival reality. Healthcare, for instance. A million other things. The wealth is gone and no longer covers the effects of the long attack.) - C.

Simon of Australia responds:

I don't understand where the money has gone. How can America be 22 trillion in debt and not have the best roads, the best airports, the biggest army, then greatest hospitals, schools etc???

It's like all that money evaporated.

I respond:

What was called the Great Society in the '60s wasted trillions on programs that did nothing. The overwhelming of welfare type services starting in the '70s has never stopped. Once the WWII generation retired from public life baby boomers systematically looted federal and state treasuries to the tune of trillions for salary, benefits and pension increases. My oldest sister had a career as a high school teacher, basically. For decades she has lived and traveled like a Kardashian. She owns a multi-million dollar home on the Monterrey peninsula (she's never worked in Monterrey, always inland in poor areas), she travels to Hawaii every year and lives in a vacation home there, and she and her school teacher husband have basically spent their life traveling the world otherwise. Teacher's unions in California voted public money to themselves after the adults left the scene (the WWII adults) making each of them rich at the expense of future generations (all that debt). Now we have the theft that's occurred during the Obama years, which has been gargantuan. And along with all this the same people have strangled the wealth producers with taxes and regulations and trade deals designed to destroy the economy. We've been under extreme Satanic attack with no defenders at the top that didn't immediately get corrupted and drawn into the evil enterprise. - C.

As usual, the comments under Nevertrump articles are more honest and intelligent than the articles

Kent Lyon 

Ormond Beach, Florida

"What makes that crisis acute is the knowledge that he and his predecessors may have helped to bring it on themselves." Unfortunately, Mr. Continetti far over reaches. There is no evidence of any soul searching on the part of the conservative intellectual. He or she evinces no awareness of any role in bringing about the current crisis. The conservative intellectual is entirely myopic, appears to feel no responsibility at all for the current crisis, and is content to simply bash Trump supporters, viewing them exactly as does Hillary Clinton--as deplorables, despicable ignorant scum, against whom the conservative intellectual spouts vituperation reeking of disdain. The vile Charles Murray for example, evinces some sympathy for the denizens of Fishtown from a sterile statistical academic perspective, but the minute those denizens chose a flesh and blood candidate in Trump, he goes ballistic to the point of meltdown over the audacity of those denizens in challenging the order that they are suffering under. The conservative intellectual has lost all contact with the supposed beneficiaries of conservative ideas and policies. And the conservative intellectual views the hoi poloi with the same disdain as the Democratic Party elite, as voting fodder to be manipulated and bamboozled for the benefit of incumbency, nothing more, nothing less. Just as Buckley bragged to the end of jis life about helping Goldwater distance himself from thse deplorable Birchers (aka Goldwater's conservative populist base--evey businessman in Phoenix was a card carrying Birtcher in those days). so we have his successors bashing Trump, and by extension his supporters, in sotto voce and voz alta, helping to ensure that Trump loses in a lanslide like Goldwater did. Plus ca change...
The reason Reagan won where Goldwater did not, is that Reagan didn't alienate that deplorable base; he welcomed it. When pressed by the elites he simply replied: Just becuase they support me doesn't mean that I support them, and left it at that.
And by the way, Reagan didn't just espouse a nationalist/populaist position in the panama Canal debate--he singlehandedly handed Buckley and the pro intellectuals their heads on platters: He decimated them with vastly superior information and insight.'Reagan made Buckely look like an ignorant, effete fool.
NR's infatuation with Burke blinds it to about everything. Burke was a Royalist who opposed human freedom and the American Revolution. NR finds itself in the role of George III objecting to a declaration of independence by the hoi poloi, from the arrogant royalists that consider themselves conservative intellectuals and their duplicitous and disdainful political masters in the Republican establishment.

Ideas have consequences - do you buy that?

Ideas have consequences. I never use to buy that. I didn't put it into context using the phrase "ideas have consequences" in my earlier days, but similar thoughts about ideas.

I'd think: "So, I'm suppose to believe that some philosopher gets an idea, and somehow it then influences whole populations of people in an entire era of history? I don't buy that (I would say in my youth).

I just couldn't see that. It didn't seem practical to me.

Yet as I've learned more about ideas and worldviews I can very well see how that all did happen over and over in history. Probably to more of a strange degree than even some today who always bought the notion would even believe.

I think I have the answer as to why I didn't buy it, and why it is so.

Ideas - especially bad ideas - have tremendous influence on people because that is how the Devil operates in this realm (and before I was regenerated by the word and the Spirit I couldn't see that). Part of Satan being the 'power of the air' is ability to influence the ideas that float around and infect people. And it happens to such an easy and deep degree because it is *supernatural,* i.e. an act of Satan himself. It's a big part of how Satan controls his realm.

So as I marvel that young college students seem to have no defense against the lunacy of post-modernism in all its Hydra-headed manifestations I now see that part of that phenomenon is due to the fact that those young college students have no defense against the Devil and his stratagems to begin with. It's a supernatural hold the Devil has over the benighted young students (and still has over their parents, no doubt).

So when you see ideas as one of the weapons - a big one - Satan has to capture and hold people within the bonds of his Kingdom; and you see their supernatural quality; you don't marvel anymore at the effectiveness of bad ideas to control people.

The solution, the defense, is as always: complete reading - downloading into our soul - of the living, quickening word of God. It gives the material for a defense in ways we can't know when we are in the act of reading it, so we just must read it diligently and like a child, while making the continual effort to get parts-in-relation-to-the-whole understanding of it.

The awake vs. the walking dead (who are often leaders and educators in the Christian realm)

This video is revealing of how hallucinogenically shallow Christian educators and leaders are. James White ventures out of his specialty and shows his non-understanding of history (WWI sanctions on Germany are apparently directly analogous to the United States today, oh, no, he doesn't know anything about those sanctions...Russia is a major power on the rise...well, Russia doesn't even feed itself; it has oil, an arms industry, and that's about it, but when your image of Russia is THE SOVIET UNION, as White's obviously is, you will make a mistake like that).

White knows nothing about the liberty movement and Trump's involvement in it for decades, going back to Reagan.

White thinks Trump is a horrible speaker. White can't compute things like sound instinct, big picture, common-sense, and practical intelligence. Not to mention Trump's warfaring with ingrained political-correctness, something White can't recognize because political correctness is a medium for White which is like what water is to fish.

White also seems to have a deterministic view of decline. This is what socialists indoctrinate into people. What socialists do can never be undone. White is the usual feckless victim of cultural Marxism in the institutions of learning he graduated from.

White is almost criminally naive regarding the battle lines of this election. White considers *himself* an elite. He thinks that's a real thing to self-identify as. Thus the political establishment, according to White, is made up of adults (and stuff). People who "know how it is done." (And stuff.)

White like most all clerics today has no discernment for good and evil within him. He uses what he observes as genuinely bad to accuse fellow Americans, including Christians. He takes pleasure in accusing others. He can't see how the U.S. has been getting attacked relentlessly by evil from its inception; he sees it all as Americans and Christians indulging evil; and God's remnant are to blame...other than White, who sits back and gloats as he accuses and moralizes.

White is a minister of the devil by default of his stupidity and glass-eyed narcissistic indulgence in pretending to be "above it all", looking down on Americans, including Christians, lost in a maelstrom of evil that will never be interrupted or reversed or even confronted, and that is all "their" fault.

If you do just a cursory search on the 'net for the current political insights and opinions of similar internet celebrity pastors and theologians you will find they all are singing the same tune. Shallowness seems to be a requirement in today's church and seminary culture. And fecklessness in the face of cultural Marxist indoctrination.

An esoteric bullet point on Covenant Theology

Here I wrote a ten bullet point post on Covenant Theology.

In this post I'll write an esoteric point.

Jesus tells us how to be in covenant, in the Covenant of Grace. It relates to the so-called sacraments, but the sacraments are visual parable. There is a real, practical way to be in covenant. As real as physical circumcision.

It only happens on the foundation of regeneration by the word and the Spirit, it goes without saying.

Jesus tells us to be watchful, or awake. He also tells us to love our enemy. This correlates to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. The two great commandments of Jesus.

Isn't it interesting that watchfulness and loving one's enemy are not taught in churches and are not mentioned in systematic theologies? Yet they are teachings directly from the mouth of Jesus Christ Himself.

With watchfulness we are filled with the Spirit.

With loving our enemy we are communing with Jesus, our suffering Savior, in a real, practical way.

The two sentences above correlate to ritual water baptism and the Lord's Supper, though they are the practical doing of the sacraments.

A formula from another language: conscious labor, intentional suffering. The two conscious shocks. Conscious shocks to our system because they have to come from inside us, not as random shocks from the world outside us. Think of this last point this way: you are commanded to love your enemy. But in a real time event, in the traffic of your everyday life, you won't even remember that commandment. You'll be caught up in the event and in your resentment. The very act of remembering the commandment is a conscious act. This is partly what is meant by a conscious shock.

Intentional suffering is very different from what we know of as suffering. Most suffering is fake suffering. Various resentments and annoyances, etc. Intentional suffering is like when you *eat* your pride or your vanity in a real time event. It's not easy to do. You have to be separated internally from the 'you' that feels the resentment. But I'm writing this to give an idea that there is more to biblical teaching than is contained in even the best systematic theologies or devotional books.

These things aren't taught at the mainstream level because they provoke limits within a person, and when limits are provoked by definition one is at the end of one's rope, and craziness occurs by default. Yet you have to provoke your limits to be able to increase your limits. Especially to increase your limits to a next stage, where your average state will then be higher than before.

For instance truly practicing watchfulness will make one, eventually, like a crude engine someone has put very refined fuel into which causes the crude engine to explode. So these things can only be approached through stages of initiation, motivated from within.

But watchfulness (being awake in the moment, sometimes associated with the awareness of the presence of God, which ultimately is a necessary component, but at first it's difficult enough just to be awake - "I am here, walking down this street" - in the moment and to hold it) is difficult. Our natural state is waking sleep. Sleep walking through life. It takes effort to be awake in the moment. In fact you'll fall back into waking sleep quickly, and then if you wake up again later you'll then know what waking sleep is. It's where you were in all that in-between time. As I was saying, watchfulness and intentional suffering (loving our enemy) is truly how we can be in covenant. It raises our existence even in time. It makes us useful to God on the spiritual battlefield. It releases us from laws that effect and constrain sleeping people. You become like a knight (male or female) who has contact with Mt. Zion and is yet out in the world. You can effect the very fate of other human beings in ways God wants it effected. Do work for the Kingdom of God.

And in the process you build your being. It is blatant in the New Testament that there is a difference in level of being between God's elect. It angers many, but fear God alone. When you fear God alone you don't fear or worry about what 'angers' the world... Let the world be angry as hell all it wants. The anger of Cain... We are above that...

Fearing God alone also enables one to pursue Wisdom. You don't care what man or the world in general thinks of you. You don't allow the world to dissuade you from seeking wisdom. You fear God alone. A sophisticated language describing in practical language what this post is discussing can be found in a book titled Fourth Way by Ouspensky. It's not for everybody (especially shallow, mocking, scared people), especially not churchians (don't be a churchian), but also it's just truly not for everybody and that doesn't mean some people are lesser Christians than others. Some come, though, to a point where they want the practical level teaching. It needs regeneration. Then it needs a bit of a unique development in life regarding acquaintance with higher influences (imaginative literature, history, philosophy, art, music, science, religion) and a balanced development of each part of our being (intellect, emotion, physical). But Christianity has never been for dopes. It's only with the appearance of the culturally Marxist indoctrinated clerics and theologians that being a dope has been put forth as a virtue in a Christian. Stay away from synagogues of Satan, church or institutions of learning, and the people who teach or lead or come from them.

10 bullet points on Covenant Theology

1. Start with recognizing the three foundational covenants: the Covenant of Redemption, the Covenant of Works, and the Covenant of Grace. Some want to tuck the Covenant of Redemption into the Covenant of Grace and so only talk about the Covenant of Works and the Covenant of Grace, but the problem with that is the Covenant of Redemption is the foundation of both the Covenant of Works and the Covenant of Grace, not just the Covenant of Grace alone. The Covenant of Grace is the Covenant of Redemption as it is played out in historical time (the Covenant of Redemption is convened before creation in eternity); yet the Covenant of Redemption also underlies the Covenant of Works made in the Garden. The Covenant of Works is what Jesus comes to fulfill after the first Adam fails to fulfill it. This is part of the plan of redemption as laid out in the Covenant of Redemption. Some don't want to recognize the Covenant of Redemption because the Westminster Confession of Faith doesn't mention it directly and they want their confession to be perfect, but no document made by man will be perfect because it would rival the word of God itself.

2. It's important to realize there are three unique players in God's plan of redemption: pre-fall Adam, National Israel (as opposed to individual Israelites), and Jesus Himself. This is important to know so that you don't compare any of these three players with fallen man in general, pre or post-incarnation.

3. Jesus (the second Adam) came to fulfill what the first Adam failed to fulfill. So did this mean Jesus came to not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Well...yes, but obviously the garden is no more and the scene has changed post fall. So that Covenant of Works made in the Garden was republished on Sinai (the Mosaic Covenant) - in obviously elaborated form - so that Jesus could be "born under the law" and have that specific law to follow and fulfill to a 't.' Which Jesus did. Which only Jesus could do.

4. For some odd reason nobody in this discussion of Covenant Theology wants to talk about how National Israel is a prototype of the coming Messiah. It's curious because it is central to understanding Covenant Theology and to understanding God's plan of redemption overall. National Israel mirrored Jesus' life (for instance going down to Egypt). National Israel also came into existence to be the bloodline of the coming Messiah, from Adam through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and the Twelve Tribes. National Israel's history also was the actual substance of the engrafted word of God. You can see how close an identity as a type National Israel had with the coming Messiah. Blood, history, biography, etc. This typology is important to see why the Covenant on Sinai was made and how it relates to fallen man. National Israel was not fallen man, individual Israelites were fallen people, just like us, but as the entity National Israel they were a unique player in God's plan of redemption. There is NO similarity between National Israel and any people or nation that is not National Israel, pre or post-Incarnation. Individual Israelites were saved by faith in the coming Messiah just as we are saved by faith in the already come Messiah, but National Israel as an entity is unique as a type of the coming Messiah.

5. Saying the Mosaic Covenant is a republication of the Covenant of Works is not saying that anybody can be saved by their own works after the fall. This point is demagogued by many in the general discussions and arguments over Covenant Theology. The Mosaic Covenant was the republished Covenant of Works for National Israel as a prototype of Jesus, and for Jesus Himself to be born under and to fulfill.

6. Jesus' very fulfilling of the republished Covenant of Works on Sinai *is the Covenant of Grace for fallen man* once fallen man appropriates Jesus' accomplishment by faith. This is the only sense that the Mosaic Covenant is both a Covenant of Works and a Covenant of Grace at the same time. In other words: there is only one way to be saved........works. Either your own works (good luck with that, fallen man who has original sin and who has actively sinned from birth), or Jesus Christ's works, appropriated by faith. The latter route is the Covenant of Grace.

7. An aside: it helps to get an overall skeletal sense of the history of the plan of redemption by reading Thomas Boston's Human Nature in Its Fourfold State. Why? Because it will clearly show the differences between the pre-fall state of man in the Garden; the post-fall state of man in this fallen world; the new state that a human being enters when regenerated by the word and the Spirit; and finally the state of glorification beyond physical death. Knowing these four different states helps one in not making category mistakes. For instance, some very respected theologians treat Adam in the Garden the same as if he was a fallen man like us. No, Adam in the Garden was different from us. Adam had the ability to sin, and the ability to not sin. We as fallen people have the ability to sin, and the inability to not sin. Everything we do is sin. We are dead in sin. Adam in the Garden was not. He became like us after his fall, but prior he was different from us. Regarding sin and the four states it goes like this:

Man in innocence in the Garden: able to sin, able to not sin
Fallen man: able to sin, unable to not sin
Regenerated man: able to sin, able to not sin
Glorified man: unable to sin (which is a wholly new state that even pre-fall Adam did not possess)

8. The other covenants (other than the Noahic) had to do with setting up the Nation and Kingdom of Israel. The Abrahamic Covenant made Abraham's offspring, including the God-man Jesus Christ, God's unique people, with their own land, in time to set the stage for His overall plan of redemption. The Mosaic Covenant gave National Israel it's laws and ceremonies, again to enable them to bring the future Messiah into being undefiled by any of Satan's attempts to defile that royal bloodline. The harsh laws for adultery, for instance, had this for it's reason for existence. The Davidic Covenant set up the line of the Kingdom. The Noahic Covenant established the theatre of redemption, keeping it safe from future judgment like what happened with the flood, but obviously not keeping it safe from the final judgment. National Israel's history also played the role of showing the world that one can't earn one's salvation by one's own works.

9. In spiritual warfare the Covenant of Redemption is like the Christian's Magna Carta, or legal Constitution that he or she stands on when challenged by the Devil. There is also a small analogy regarding this with what being a citizen of Rome meant back in the apostle Paul's day. It granted rights and protections non-citizens didn't have.

10. It has to be stated that there is intentional deception by some when discussing Covenant Theology. Those who are mostly concerned with protecting infant baptism are the worst offenders (but Federal Vision types have their own motives for deception). Those concerned with protecting infant baptism distort Covenant Theology by first insisting that the Old Covenant mentioned by Paul is not Sinai but is the Abrahamic Covenant. They have to maintain the parallel, as they need it, between physical circumcision and ritual water baptism (when the bible makes circumcision of the heart - which is regeneration by the word and the Spirit - the parallel to physical circumcision). They also have to say one can be in the Covenant of Grace and not be in the Covenant of Grace *at the same time.* This is ad hoc garbage doctrine.

_____
Addendum: Here is a continuation post on an esoteric point regarding Covenant Theology.

Which church?

Debater James White dropped the Romanist Hammer Verse® on his listeners yesterday, demanding that he be the ruler of "lay people" based on Hebrews 13:17 -

17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

White use to belong to a now defunct forum that had two levels. The lower level was for the "lay people", and the closed upper level was for the seminary graduates and other special people of God. Guess where all the upper level types spent the majority of their time? Yeah, in the closed upper level. Who wants to hang with unwashed nobody 'Christians' while taking the risk that one or more of them will show you up (which happened regularly, followed by the usual deletions and bannings).

Just as the 'elite' class that makes up the Washington establishment has no clue the level of contempt Americans hold them in, these clerics and seminary graduates equally have no clue the contempt God's lowly and plain people hold them in.

So what is James White missing in citing that verse? He's reading it in isolation. Prior to that verse is another verse. Hebrews 13:7 -

7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Why is this verse relevant? Because it says *why* some person might have the 'rule' over another, and just what that rule consists of. Notice the phrase "the word of God" in that verse? That is the rule. If a person has the word of God they have the rule. God's word is the only rule for a Christian. Not a cleric or theologian or scholar. The word of God. Back then, when Paul was writing (assuming Paul to be the writer of Hebrews) the word of God was not as available as it is today, it goes without saying. We now have the complete word of God in convenient book form. If you lived in an era where you could only get at it from a person who has it then you definitely would be interested in sitting under that person.

Why did White miss that? Because White does not see the Bible as having the authority of the word of God. He sees bibles has having the authority of the word of scholars. He thus considers himself to be the rule spoken of in the verse.

There is another practical matter to be stated regarding this verse and how it is used by the Romanist types who use it as their hammer to get people to recognize them as a ruler.

When someone, anyone, says you must join a church, you say, "Which church?" They say inevitably, their church. Some will say any church. So, 99 out of a 100 churches are worthless regarding what they teach, so, I'm supposed to join a synagogue of Satan as a matter of course because clerics who think they are rulers say so? Well, they might then say, join a church that teaches the truth. I answer: if I'm able to discern the truth myself - which I am - why do I need any church at all? I'm in the Church of which Jesus Christ is King. The church you hate. The church which uses the pure and whole word of God which you hate. The church that is biblical. I say to James White and all other clerics who demand to rule over Christians: go to hell, devils.

Seeing God 2

Over a year ago I wrote a short post on the subject of seeing God. Here. Now here is another angle on this subject.

In the first post I mentioned how it can be an uncomfortable thing to think about seeing God in Heaven because that kind of feels like seeing a supreme authority figure, or being in the presence continually of an authority figure. It even feels a bit silly. Like a Muslim staring at their black rock after journeying a thousand miles to get there. I.e. what is the point of just merely looking at something? This is not mocking something like the beatific vision; this is practical thinking. Anyway, I answered that part of it in the first post linked above.

In this part two I want to mention another aspect of seeing God that doesn't get talked about. I believe it has to do with the subject of our level of being.

You have to have something in you before you can see it outside of you. Think of this in terms of language. You can't see why one musical composition is more interesting than another unless you have some of the language of music in you. If that involves just having heard different kinds and levels of music rather than having any musical theory in you it still applies because you heard that music which is audible language. I.e. you have *something* in you that gives you ability to discern the difference between the two musical works.

To see God you have to have something of God in you. Obviously the Holy Spirit applies here. At the level, though, of being in the Kingdom of God (seeing God - Jesus - directly) your level of being has to be higher than it is right now.

Forget the question of how your level of being gets to where it has to be to be in Heaven. Monergism, synergism regarding sanctification, etc. Let's just say you are *there* now. This means 'seeing God' is a measure of your new level of being. I.e. it is too simple to see it as you standing before Jesus gawking at Him and thinking that is the goal, to see Jesus. That's kind of silly.

When it's said the angels always face God that is talking about how they are arranged in their internal being. They are not always, literally - physically - facing God.

It's the same with glorified human beings in the presence of God which is to say in the Kingdom of God, the new heavens and earth.

The subject is level of being; not climbing up to the summit to view the old man in the cave.